Fiora's Arena ability bug

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MI-Wolf
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Fiora's Arena ability bug

Postby MI-Wolf » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:49 pm

I just noticed that Fiora's power is activating when her condition is NOT met. Holy Shield description says "When any Ally's power is INCREASED, increase Firoa and her right teammates power."

My Kuro Shobi attacked the enemy Oneira with Crippling Blow 3. Oneira lost power and then the enemy's Fiora activated Holy Shield. I did some more free battles and found this to be the case on another fight. When the enemy lost power Fiora's Holy Shield would Activate.

I have been trying to fine tune my arena group when I noticed that I should be winning some of the fights and I was losing. So, I took a closer look and see why.

CC_Rain
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Re: Fiora's Arena ability bug

Postby CC_Rain » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:04 pm

Hello, thank you for the report. I'll pass it along to the appropriate teams and we'll go from there.

~CC_Rain

Arty
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Re: Fiora's Arena ability bug

Postby Arty » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:56 pm

MI-Wolf wrote:My Kuro Shobi attacked the enemy Oneira with Crippling Blow 3. Oneira lost power and then the enemy's Fiora activated Holy Shield. I did some more free battles and found this to be the case on another fight. When the enemy lost power Fiora's Holy Shield would Activate.


I think you are simply misinterpreting what you see. Your Kuro's Crippling Blow is triggered when an enemy's power is increased. When then the enemy's Fiora's Holy Shield triggers, it is not a reaction to the power loss from Crippling Blow, but to the orginal power increase that had also triggered Kuro's Crippling Blow.

MI-Wolf
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Re: Fiora's Arena ability bug

Postby MI-Wolf » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:18 am

Arty wrote:
MI-Wolf wrote:My Kuro Shobi attacked the enemy Oneira with Crippling Blow 3. Oneira lost power and then the enemy's Fiora activated Holy Shield. I did some more free battles and found this to be the case on another fight. When the enemy lost power Fiora's Holy Shield would Activate.


I think you are simply misinterpreting what you see. Your Kuro's Crippling Blow is triggered when an enemy's power is increased. When then the enemy's Fiora's Holy Shield triggers, it is not a reaction to the power loss from Crippling Blow, but to the orginal power increase that had also triggered Kuro's Crippling Blow.


You are correct. I just retested and saw what you meant. Because Fiora's power doesn't go off right after the power increase, it goes off after Kuro's power decrease. So, I was confused because the order wasn't in a logical order. But there is something wrong between Fiora's Holy Shield and Kuro's Crippling Blow

Every time Fiora's power goes off, Kuro's should as well. Correct? That is not what I am seeing. So, Kuro crippling blows to Oneria. Oneria loses power. Oneria casts purify, Enemy increases power. Kuro power goes off after this. (this is correct) Then Fiora casts Holy Shield because of Oneria's Purify, but Kuro's power does not go off (this is incorrect); Her power is 100%. So, that is 2 power increases for the Enemy but only 1 decrease from Kuro.

I tested again with no Oneria. Edward broke an item. Louca did field repairs. Kuro's power went off. Fiora cast Holy Sheild, Kuro's power did not go off. That is 2 different power ups for the enemy and only 1 power down for Kuro.

Maybe someone else should test and see if I am missing something.
Last edited by MI-Wolf on Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Shiroe
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Re: Fiora's Arena ability bug

Postby Shiroe » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:59 am

Probably coded to trigger only once per phase. Haven't really thoroughly looked into it, but percentages are probably balanced around the number of possible procs.
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MI-Wolf
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Re: Fiora's Arena ability bug

Postby MI-Wolf » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:15 am

Shiroe wrote:Probably coded to trigger only once per phase. Haven't really thoroughly looked into it, but percentages are probably balanced around the number of possible procs.


That is not how her power is described. It implies any time an enemy increases her power will work. If in a phase the enemy receives 3 power increases, her power should activate. That is the description.

Azbandar
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Re: Fiora's Arena ability bug

Postby Azbandar » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:10 pm

MI-Wolf wrote:
Shiroe wrote:Probably coded to trigger only once per phase. Haven't really thoroughly looked into it, but percentages are probably balanced around the number of possible procs.


That is not how her power is described. It implies any time an enemy increases her power will work. If in a phase the enemy receives 3 power increases, her power should activate. That is the description.


Unfortunately Shiroe's assessment is correct with the phases, however with a slight twist.

A drawn out, hopefully clear example:
My Team
  • Odette - Cheap Shot III
  • Kurul - Intimidate
  • Lorelei - Flurry of Knives
  • Nya - Repel Magic II
  • Francesca - Repel Magic III

Enemy Team
  • Charles - Counterspell
  • Fiora - Holy Shield
  • Lorelei - Flurry of Knives
  • Oneira - Purify III
  • Louca - Field Repairs

Combat Starts:
(The initial spells can go off in any order, but I will just go straight down the list to make it easier to follow, I will also be winning)

Before combat begins phase

  • Kurul casts Intimidate
  • Oneira reacts with Purify
  • Nya reacts to Oneira's Purify
  • Fancesca reacts to Oneira's Purify
  • Fiora reacts to Oneira's Purify
(End of first attack)

  • Lorelei casts Flurry of Knives
  • Oneira reacts with Purify
  • Nya reacts to Oneira's Purify
  • Fancesca reacts to Oneira's Purify
  • Fiora reacts to Oneira's Purify
(End of second attack)

  • Lorelei casts Flurry of Knives
(End of third attack)

Round 1 actually starts!
  • Charles breaks something
  • Louca reacts with a buff
  • Nya reacts with Repel Magic
  • Francesca reacts with Repel Magic
  • Oneira reacts to Nya with Purify
  • Fiora reacts with Holy Shield
  • Odette attacks and wins
  • Odette casts Cheap Shot

Round 2 starts!
  • Fiora breaks something
  • Louca reacts with a buff
  • Nya reacts with Repel Magic
  • Francesca reacts with Repel Magic
  • Oneira reacts to Nya with Purify
  • Fiora reacts with Holy Shield
  • Kurul attacks and wins

Round 3 Starts!
  • Lorelei breaks something
  • Louca reacts with a buff
  • Nya reacts with Repel Magic
  • Francesca reacts with Repel Magic
  • Oneira reacts to Nya with Purify
  • Lorelei attacks and wins

Round 4 Starts!
  • Oneira breaks something
  • Louca reacts with a buff
  • Nya reacts with Repel Magic
  • Francesca reacts with Repel Magic
  • Oneira reacts to Nya with Purify
  • Nya attacks and loses

Round 5 Starts!
  • Louca breaks something
  • Louca reacts with a buff
  • Francesca reacts with Repel Magic
  • Oneira reacts to Francesca with Purify
  • Francesca attacks and loses

I win the fight as I won 3/5!

It's hard describe an actual phase without the full battle log, but the basics of a phase are "initial ability used", and each reaction skill can only happen once per phase. Unfortunately, that means you need to know what the initial ability is. In your case, it's whatever caused Oneira to start her Purify, is what the initial ability is. Therefore, Kuro Shobi for you, Oneira and Fiora for the enemy team are simple just reactions that can be used the one time based on that initial ability use.

I'm sure this is as clear as mud, but it's the best I can do for now.
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Arty
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Re: Fiora's Arena ability bug

Postby Arty » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:27 pm

MI-Wolf wrote:
Shiroe wrote:Probably coded to trigger only once per phase. Haven't really thoroughly looked into it, but percentages are probably balanced around the number of possible procs.


That is not how her power is described. It implies any time an enemy increases her power will work. If in a phase the enemy receives 3 power increases, her power should activate. That is the description.


Well, descriptions are rarely 100% accurate unless the system is very very simple.

In this game, with so many high chance reaction skills it should be obvious from the start that there are additional restricions in place, otherwise most fights would be infinitely long. (Just look Fiora's Holy Shield for example. It increases the power of three heroes. In a strict interpretation of the skill description, each of those three power increases would have a 60% chance to trigger the Holy Shield again. So once Fiora gets going, it'd be unlikely for her to ever stop. Realistically you have an infinite loop.)

So why don't the skill descriptions simply reflect how the system really works?
I'd say that it'd be hard make a good short short description. There is not one obvious way to deal with the aforementioned problem, there are many possible ways, and desribing each one of them properly would likely require to become very technical. Any such description would likely be either too long or too unprecise, not too mention that technical descriptions probably confuse most players anyway. I assume that's why merely the basic idea of the skills made it into their description.


Of course, that still leaves the problem of finding out how this stuff exactly works. Based on some tests I did, my hypothesis about the inner workings is this:
  • A fight (team vs. team) consists of many "phases" that don't overlap.
  • During a phase, no hero's skill can trigger more than once.
  • A phase contains a "starting event" and all its transitive skill reactions. (I.e. it contains reactions, reactions of reactions, etc.)
  • The "starting event" of a phase is one of the following:
    • a hero wins a fight
    • a hero loses a fight
    • a skill triggers at a certain time (but not as a reaction to anything)
    • a skill triggers as a reaction to an equipment break
  • If a skill increased or decreased the power of more than one hero then each involved hero can trigger a reaction skill independently.
    (Even though the original increases/decreases are depicted as a single action, they still count individually for the purpose of triggering a reaction. It's just that such a reaction can't be triggered more than once because it's all in the same phase.)

Some clarifications:
If a fight between two heroes concludes, the win of one hero and the loss of the other trigger indeed two different phases.
It's a bit strange that equipment breaks are different, but they are. If something breaks, then Louca's field repair and the opponent's Francesca's Guerrilla Warfare kick off two different phases.


Edit: Azbandar was quicker. Good, then maybe I don't have to type out some examples I wanted to add.
Edit2: Finally managed to check whether the fight result (hero vs. hero) triggers more than one phase (for win and oss independently) and changed the info accordingly.
Last edited by Arty on Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

alanx
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Re: Fiora's Arena ability bug

Postby alanx » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:08 am

This is some really good info. Thank you. This could be reworked into a battle system info guide if anyone wants to.

MI-Wolf
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Re: Fiora's Arena ability bug

Postby MI-Wolf » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:27 am

Thanks for the info, it explains a lot. The arena is a hot mess in my opinion. It is completely arbitrary if you win or lose. Or at least it seems like that to me. They need to fix or address the arena more. If powers only work in phases then spell that out for people. I know some powers say "before battle" or "during battle." But they don't say the power only happens 1 time for this phase. So, if the power is re-written then maybe it would be more clear.


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