Certain Fusion Result Distributions are off

Report a bug or find troubleshooting tips for known issues.
Forum rules
Before starting a thread, please check to make sure that others have not already reported the same issue. When reporting a bug, please try to provide a screenshot and to describe the proper instance in order for us to replicate the issue. After an issue has been confirmed and/or fixed on our end, the topic for it will be locked to prevent further reports. For all payment related issues, please open a ticket at http://cloudcade.helpshift.com to receive immediate support.
Arty
"Good" Mastery Member
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 4:57 am

Certain Fusion Result Distributions are off

Postby Arty » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:22 pm

When you put two different items of the same level and quality into a premium fusion slot, one of them gets a free copy, so roughly two thirds of the successful fusions results should be the copied item (one quality higher). This is also what the cauldron shows before the fusion.

I did some tests with that setup and found that when the items were flawless or higher, then the results were roughly a 50:50 split:
Image
It's a significant amount of tests. The data rejects a "2:1"-spilt hypothesis with >99% confidence. Seems to be rather a 1:1 split (surprisingly accurately even in the test data), like the shadow copy didn't count except for the general fusion success chance (which looks okay for each of the qualities). And it doesn't seem to be related to a specific quality.

Something I briefly considered was the idea that the problem stems from cases where both items in the cauldron had equal worth, and that the fusion result from the server used a different copy. But even after eliminating those cases it was a 50:50 split (316 tests, 168 successes, 84 of them (50%) resulting in the copied item).

It's not quite clear yet whether this problem occurs when two great items are thrown into the cauldron. I only have a somewhat small sample of 37 tests here, with 24 of them (64.9%) resulting in a flawless version of the copied item. It looks like it might work properly here, but it's not conclusive given the small sample size.
Edit: Larger test sample suggests the same problem also for "great". See reply post.

It's also not clear if the problem is even related to the premium slot. It might as well be that a 2:1 fill of a regular cauldron slot produces a 50:50 split of results if successful. I don't have any test data on this. (Maybe someone else has?)

This should definitely looked into it. As players we need to be able to trust the fusion chances that the cauldron shows us.
Last edited by Arty on Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

Arty
"Good" Mastery Member
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 4:57 am

Re: Certain Fusion Result Distributions are off

Postby Arty » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:58 am

Did some more tests. Summary of latest data:
Image

I also reported this to the support team now.

User avatar
cc_Darkis
Cloudcade Staff
Posts: 631
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:50 pm

Re: Certain Fusion Result Distributions are off

Postby cc_Darkis » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:46 pm

Thanks for taking the time to write and post this up. We are looking into it that's for sure. 8-)
"Cauldron is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get."~river#44249 :D
"Gems of Shop Heroes are like diamonds of real life."~Prometheus :o

alanx
"Flawless" Mastery Member
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:31 pm

Re: Certain Fusion Result Distributions are off

Postby alanx » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:29 pm

Thanks a lot Arty for all the work that’s gone into finding this issue. Really great stuff. I hope CC fixes it soon.

Mitrax
"Good" Mastery Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:15 am

Re: Certain Fusion Result Distributions are off

Postby Mitrax » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:29 am

cc_Darkis wrote:Thanks for taking the time to write and post this up. We are looking into it that's for sure. 8-)


Have you found anything?

BigNasty
"Good" Mastery Member
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:17 pm

Re: Certain Fusion Result Distributions are off

Postby BigNasty » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:59 pm

So are we acting like this isn't actually a major game altering thing or is no response since 05Dec part of the customer service we should expect from here on out?

User avatar
Fenix
"Good" Mastery Member
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:00 pm

Re: Certain Fusion Result Distributions are off

Postby Fenix » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:12 am

Someone posted this on discord so I decided to check it out. It seems very interesting, obviously arty's data seems to indication the cloned slot isn't fully functioning as intended. I've been doing a little pet project myself to make a +4 item to see if it would really be unbreakable on any hero at any level.

I didn't bother to record my fusion results since I didn't think there was any point but from everything I did it seemed to be working just fine. The main difference I noticed between what I did and what arty did was that I was using 2 different items of different levels. (Moon boots and Robin Hoods if anyone cares to know.)

Obviously that creates a situation where you get one item more than the other in the first place but I deliberately put in 1 of the lower level item (Moon boots) and it got cloned since it has higher gold value and then put in 3 of the higher level item. It creates a split that was reasonably close to 50/50 (I want to say it should be 55/45 but I have put off working on my project this month so it has been awhile.) Yet despite my compensation no matter whether I was fusing flawless, epic, legendaries or enchanting mythics to +1 or +2 it seems like I was constantly getting Moon Boots (at about a rate of 70-75%).

Obviously I didn't record my results so take it for what you will but I'm curious if arty or anyone else has done a study on if the cloning slot is working on fusions between different level items like it seems to be for me. At the very least it seems to have affected the outcome and given me the cloned item more often than the % indicated it should. Granted that can happen when RNG is involved, but given the scope of my project a small sample size is not the issue as I've done a great number of fusions to create all the + items I currently have.
-Official Fennekin of the Shop Heroes Forums-

Mitrax
"Good" Mastery Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:15 am

Re: Certain Fusion Result Distributions are off

Postby Mitrax » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:20 pm

I used to fuse: 28h 10m 17s
lvl 48 flawless Hallowed Casket + clone
lvl 17/18/18 legend
chance to fuse for mystic 17/18/19 should be 1.43%, 1.21%, 1.03%
chance to fuse for epic 48 = 92.67%
chance to fuse for leg 48 = 3.53%

I got 3 of 5 fusions mystic 17/18/19 => sucks a lot !!!
_____________________________________
alternative fuse: 33h 56m 28s
3x 48 flawless Hallowed Casket = 60% epic
2x 48 Heart Ring = 40% epic
nearby 2 days to fuse => joke ???
_____________________________________
regular fuse: 67h 52m 56s
5x 48 flawless Hallowed Casket
nearby 3 days to fuse => big joke ???
_____________________________________
another option
1x 48 hallowed = 87.35%
4x leg 17/18/19/20 = rest
This is more than the bugged fusion brought to me....


as you can see, the bugged fusion means nearby double of the time to fuse an epic
the "fastest" way is disabled now (including get legendary for 3,5%)

I'm going to make 6 mythical Hallowed Casket to get rid of the lowitems with energetic. The Moonboots+10 are not an alternativ at all. Only Oracle Armor (Mage Armor) or Blackmail (Protect II) should be usefull items at this slot instead of Hallowed Casket for me.

A lot of time lost of this bug. First to find, and much more to solve the problem. Thats not funny! :cry: :oops:


Regards
Mitrax

Arty
"Good" Mastery Member
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 4:57 am

Re: Certain Fusion Result Distributions are off

Postby Arty » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:30 pm

Fenix wrote:I've been doing a little pet project myself to make a +4 item to see if it would really be unbreakable on any hero at any level.

How far are you with that? I am doing the same but I siginificantly slowed down after getting +3. As for the break chance, the numbers are off currently anyway (my +3 has 2.5% break chance, higher than the 2% of +2), so who knows what the real numbers are supposed to be.


Fenix wrote:I didn't bother to record my fusion results since I didn't think there was any point but from everything I did it seemed to be working just fine. The main difference I noticed between what I did and what arty did was that I was using 2 different items of different levels. (Moon boots and Robin Hoods if anyone cares to know.)

Obviously that creates a situation where you get one item more than the other in the first place but I deliberately put in 1 of the lower level item (Moon boots) and it got cloned since it has higher gold value and then put in 3 of the higher level item. It creates a split that was reasonably close to 50/50 (I want to say it should be 55/45 but I have put off working on my project this month so it has been awhile.) Yet despite my compensation no matter whether I was fusing flawless, epic, legendaries or enchanting mythics to +1 or +2 it seems like I was constantly getting Moon Boots (at about a rate of 70-75%).

I don't understand what you did. You seem to say that you fused Moon Boots and Robin's Hood together but also that you fused Moon Boots with something higher level. Which of those is it? Becasue Robin's Hood is Lvl 8, lower than Moon Boots which are Lvl 9.
Assuming that you fused Moon Boots with 3 items of higher level and got way more Moon Boots than expected, and assuming that your sample size was big enough that this result is even significant, it suggests that it's not a simple case of "the copied item is ignored for result distribution". Assuming that those 3 higher level items were the same, it is possible (as I had speculated before) that multiples of items are generally ignored for the result distribution, and the problem isn't even related to the premium slot at all. (I had considered testing this with some low level greats with a 2:1 split in a basic fusion slot, but with my inventory always close to the limit I decided it's too tedious, because I need to track every single fusion. Would be easier with a special test account, full inventory of the stuff to fuse, counting results only in the end.) Or the real problem might be of a completely different nature. Hard to guess from test date with only very spcific fusion setups. In any case, the devs are in a much better position to test for the actual issue, they can set up some automated testing if they don't already know what the issue is.


Fenix wrote:I'm curious if arty or anyone else has done a study on if the cloning slot is working on fusions between different level items like it seems to be for me.

Well, I specifically tested with same level to avoid other effects that would possibly require even larger sample sizes. (Originally this whole test wasn't even for this bug, but to test something else.) And this ordeal was tedious enough, I don't feel like running any more such tests now. As I said, the devs are in a much better position to figure it out. When the bug is eventuelly reported as fixed, I might run some more tests.

Mitrax
"Good" Mastery Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:15 am

Re: Certain Fusion Result Distributions are off

Postby Mitrax » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:59 am

Plz fix that ***** bug. Dont wait until update is ready! I cant understand the way you are doing on known issues regarding to the main future of the game. The fusion cauldron have to work corectly as fast as possible! :oops: :oops: :oops:

Regards
Mitrax


Return to “Bugs & Issues”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

©2015 Cloudcade, Inc. All Rights Reserved.