Bulk orders and trade house integration

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Ally_Gator
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Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:01 pm

Bulk orders and trade house integration

Postby Ally_Gator » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:34 pm

I'd like to see a new bulk order daily quest objective that integrates itself with the trade house. I really like the bulk order system and I would like to see it utilized more.

There is also a problem of we need an incentive for players to stockpile the tradehouse with random stuff to keep the economy flowing.

I suggest the following:

A daily quest with 3 tiers similar to the current bulk order quests, but the items are selected based on items that are not available/low supply in the trade house. The list is also compared to what the player can craft, and the amount is based on the crafting time/base cost. The items supplied would be sent to the trade house to be sold as a gold sink.

For example:
if there are no level 15 to 30 normal quality items in the trade house. The player knows all of those blue prints on that list and gets assigned to craft 25 normal lances, 15 warming sprays, and 5 angel dusts.

Players would receive bp fragment, bp fragment, and free spin.

The items the players submit would be listed to the trade house and be sold at base value x 3. The profit from sales would be deleted as a form of a gold sink.

Expected results: This would give late/mid-game and mid-game players an incentive to supply the tradehouse without directly penalizing them, and help out early-game players by giving them a robust trade house they can utilize to equip their heroes. This would make new players less frustrated in trying to start out while giving them more sources of bp frags so they can feel like they're making decent progress.

Potential problems:
Flood of easy to craft items and a deficit of difficult to craft items thus forcing the system to constantly ask players to craft more difficult items. For how rare BP frags are, I'd go through a lot for them, but we can address this by limiting the items selected with precrafts to only be precraft + 1 in quality, ie items that require good precrafts or greats if the precraft has a base quality boost.

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Shiroe
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Re: Bulk orders and trade house integration

Postby Shiroe » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:20 am

That's not how the tradehouse works. 100% of the tradehouse's offers/request are linked to player offer/request slots. I kind of suspect a tradehouse glitch such as some items having their "zero" point start at a negative number is from breaking that assumption. (maybe removing a player account from the game and not properly clearing their offers/requests or running into a race condition with sales at that time?)

Something not being on offer in the tradehouse (for (affordable) gold) means:
a) demand for it is high (for ex. certain chest/package/raid BPs might not have commons listed but do have goods listed because the commons are used in common + flawless fusion, special orders, hero quests (the latter 2 can use higher item qualities, but many don't realize that))
or
b) the trade slots are the limiting factor, so it's better to save/use the precious trade slot for something else than that certain "low value" item

They've expressed multiple times the tradehouse code is a fragile thing they prefer to tinker with as little as possible, so I kind of doubt they would feel much urge to shift away from the 1:1 link between slots and offers/requests listed.

(and personally, I don't think of "oh, I don't have any level-appropriate items for that slot and tradehouse doesn't provide them either for a decent price, so I need to unlock that item line further" as such a bad thing in a crafting game... (fun fact: until plenty of months after global launch, Cloudcade expressed the point of view that the tradehouse was a "side feature" of the game, though that was before price landmines, gem seller websites, mass key flipping etc. caused them to add restrictions.) ;)
as of 2016-09-11: Player level: 44, City: Eolythes, Blueprints: 517, Mastered: 419, Crafted: 78.61K
(except for tier 1 and some tier 2 artifacts mostly running my shop/gearing self sufficient)

Ally_Gator
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:01 pm

Re: Bulk orders and trade house integration

Postby Ally_Gator » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:40 am

Shiroe wrote:That's not how the tradehouse works. 100% of the tradehouse's offers/request are linked to player offer/request slots. I kind of suspect a tradehouse glitch such as some items having their "zero" point start at a negative number is from breaking that assumption. (maybe removing a player account from the game and not properly clearing their offers/requests or running into a race condition with sales at that time?)

Something not being on offer in the tradehouse (for (affordable) gold) means:
a) demand for it is high (for ex. certain chest/package/raid BPs might not have commons listed but do have goods listed because the commons are used in common + flawless fusion, special orders, hero quests (the latter 2 can use higher item qualities, but many don't realize that))
or
b) the trade slots are the limiting factor, so it's better to save/use the precious trade slot for something else than that certain "low value" item

They've expressed multiple times the tradehouse code is a fragile thing they prefer to tinker with as little as possible, so I kind of doubt they would feel much urge to shift away from the 1:1 link between slots and offers/requests listed.

(and personally, I don't think of "oh, I don't have any level-appropriate items for that slot and tradehouse doesn't provide them either for a decent price, so I need to unlock that item line further" as such a bad thing in a crafting game... (fun fact: until plenty of months after global launch, Cloudcade expressed the point of view that the tradehouse was a "side feature" of the game, though that was before price landmines, gem seller websites, mass key flipping etc. caused them to add restrictions.) ;)



Keep in mind that the gameplay perspectives of an already established player is much different from someone still climbing the ranks. I understand that demand for pre-crafts is high, however this is not what I'm suggesting. Early game players have no access to the tradehouse in its current state because everyone wants gems for their normal broad swords. This puts a very bad early game impression on players because either a) they feel like the entire economy is gem-based and they need to pay to play, or b) there isn't enough players to keep the economy going. Both impressions would be pretty bad for the health of the game. Please view this from a growing player's perspective, not an established player perspective.

alanx
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Re: Bulk orders and trade house integration

Postby alanx » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:18 pm

It would be nice if they just have an un-ending bulk order system where players get one bulk order everyday. After the existing set of "highly valuable" items is over, they can just have mediocre reward bulk orders....I mean if they even give ONE blueprint fragment as a reward for bulk order to end-gamers, we would gladly accept and be happy with it lol...

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Shiroe
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Re: Bulk orders and trade house integration

Postby Shiroe » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:55 am

Yep, daily/weekly/whatever random special orders would be nice, though that wouldn't change anything for Ally_Gator's problem: low supply for low level items on the tradehouse, causing lots to be listed for gem-only...

I had a reply lined up, but got busy and ended up not posting it then:

- tradehouse at best gets a "cleanup" [1] once or twice a year, so plenty of offers/requests from dead accounts can hang around for many months
- most people who have played for a while likely put a higher value on tradeslots than to use them for low level commons/goods unless they expect a full stack of items to sell within minutes

As a result, low level common/good item offers for both gold and gems are likely put there nearly only by newbie accounts or now dead newbie accounts.
Since as you say there _is_ demand for those, while supply is low-ish, the gold priced ones will end up bought, leaving only the gem priced ones, leading new newbies to the erronious conclusion: "oh, so those sell for gems, so let me put some up for gems too". Then either they keep playing and realize that nobody buys those and cancel the offer or they end up quitting before that and the zombie gem offer hangs around for months leading to other newbies copying it.


What commons/goods people find worth using a trade slot for to offer is likely very segregated/layered by progress/daily gold income.

Trying to base-gold dump non-proccing precrafts before switching to trashing them is probably the most low level commons/good offering later game players do. We do sometimes help to fill special order/hero quest item requests mentioned in world chat, since filling a request doesn't use up a trade slot.


[1] after a "cleanup" update, offers/requests don't get re-added to the tradehouse (in their pre-update queue order) until the player logs in again, so offers/requests from dead accounts never get re-added again. (my guess is Cloudcade hasn't yet built a less bad way to pull offers/requests of dead accounts off the tradehouse)



tl;dr : other than some precrafts, tradehouse offers are very much layered by game progress because the relatively high value of tradeslot space, so late game players won't sacrifice a tradeslot for low level low quality items for more than a few minutes (for ex. request in world chat).
as of 2016-09-11: Player level: 44, City: Eolythes, Blueprints: 517, Mastered: 419, Crafted: 78.61K
(except for tier 1 and some tier 2 artifacts mostly running my shop/gearing self sufficient)


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