Help me please

Share strategies, experience and tips & tricks.
KoalaKingHuggies
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:54 pm

Help me please

Postby KoalaKingHuggies » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:38 am

hello, i am a semi-veteran player, and i just finished my mid game. mid game, as far as i consider, ends when all your heroes have full 0% epic sets and they are all level capped (late game is when your'e working on efficient teams and end game is where all your heroes have full mythic sets)

so, i ask for assistance in transitioning from mid game to late game. i tried theory-crafting myself questing teams (i have Charles and Lorlei as well), and i have to say i am just GOD DAMN AWFUL at it. i managed to get myself (in theory of course, its still theory-crafting) 5 teams with max healer, max revive and as much bonus as possible (to raid and quests), with literally 0% chance of breaking ANYTHING.

However, this is where my trouble began. i noticed that other people, abqu included, manage to get TONS of resources from questing (i saw a screenshot of him getting 130+ primal horns from 1 party once), and, if lucky, i can get about 20 from the same party (once they are full build of course).

so i researched a bit on the forums and discovered, that if you have about 8 support, you can have 15 items with break chance of up to 5% with no item EVER breaking. for me, this was groundbreaking. however i seem to be awful at this part, so here is where i come to the community for help.

can anyone send me or reply to this thread questing teams that has max healer/energetic + max revive + as much bonus as possible with no item being able to break? it took me weeks to get my current setup (theory-crafting is not easy) which is Unicorns.

i will, of course, upload what i was PLANNING on using in my endgame if anyone is interested.

tl;dr i am very bad at this, please send me teams that are good for questing. also, for discussion purposes, although i didnt unlock every recipe yet (far from it), assume i have all recipes and packs.

thank you, KoalaKingHuggies
Image

litari
"Good" Mastery Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:44 am

Re: Help me please

Postby litari » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:07 am

why do you want max healer AND max revive? if you have max revive, you dont need any healing. they never heal, they simply revive..

Cant look closely at it since Im on mobile atm, just something I was wondering :P
In-game: litari#54358, First knife crafted: 22/03/16, City: Eolythes, Level: 59, NW: 320G, Items unlocked: 603, Packs owned: 4 (sig updated: 18/01-03)

KoalaKingHuggies
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:54 pm

Re: Help me please

Postby KoalaKingHuggies » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:16 am

litari wrote:why do you want max healer AND max revive? if you have max revive, you dont need any healing. they never heal, they simply revive..

Cant look closely at it since Im on mobile atm, just something I was wondering :P

healer lowers resting time when succeeds (like energetic) but affects the whole team.
revive allows revival after injury.
- 100% energetic only: no rest time, full injury time
- 100% revive only: full rest time, no injury time
- 90% healer only: 10% rest time, 10% injury time
- 100% energetic + 90% healer: no rest time, 10% injury time
- 100% energetic + 100% revive: no rest time, no injury time

that is why i want either healer + revive or energetic + revive

User avatar
Shiroe
"Legendary" Mastery Member
Posts: 2663
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:05 am
Location: the Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Help me please

Postby Shiroe » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:58 am

KoalaKingHuggies wrote:
litari wrote:why do you want max healer AND max revive? if you have max revive, you dont need any healing. they never heal, they simply revive..

Cant look closely at it since Im on mobile atm, just something I was wondering :P

healer lowers resting time when succeeds (like energetic) but affects the whole team.
revive allows revival after injury.
- 100% energetic only: no rest time, full injury time
- 100% revive only: full rest time, no injury time
- 90% healer only: 10% rest time, 10% injury time
- 100% energetic + 90% healer: no rest time, 10% injury time
- 100% energetic + 100% revive: no rest time, no injury time

that is why i want either healer + revive or energetic + revive

The 5 bullet points are correct, but instead of listing points 4 and 5, your conclusion then lists point 5 and an unlisted one...

Point 4 is the common transition from mid to late game.
A team of 6 has 7 slots per hero, so 42 total.
Per hero you'll mostly have 1-2 energetic items to get the 100% energetic.
The leader might have a Leader item to get to the party size of 6.
6-7 Support should be enough to get break chance down to maybe something like 1 break every half year and depending on packages will take 3-7 slots.
For Healer, if the team has no Azula, Oneira, Minh, you might be looking at up to 9 slots for healer (Heroic Pack 2 has a Healer II ring @ legendary though).
So worst case (heroes without relevant skills, all tier 1 skill items) you'd have 42 - 12 (Energetic) - 1 (Leader) - 7 (Support) - 9 (Healer) = 13 slots left for things like Speedrunner, extra loot or extra power after making a no rest, short injury, virtually never breaks anything team.


Point 5 I guess is near the transition from late to end game.
Instead of up to 9 slots for healer, you have up to 20 needed for revive! Which isn't really viable unless you stuff in some Revive II/Revive III to reduce that number, which sticks you with high level mythicals and legendary Keeper of Souls... Also: it looks like revive+energetic+support is a worse musical chairs slot-wise than healer+energetic+support. (I wish I had Midas Gloves from the Heroic Pack 1, so I could shove Support into the under-used gloves slot...) Technically, once you can run such a team, you can switch over most extra power items to extra loot items, since you just need to reach the party power minimum, while individual heroes can run with orange or red face without consequences. :|
as of 2016-09-11: Player level: 44, City: Eolythes, Blueprints: 517, Mastered: 419, Crafted: 78.61K
(except for tier 1 and some tier 2 artifacts mostly running my shop/gearing self sufficient)

KoalaKingHuggies
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:54 pm

Re: Help me please

Postby KoalaKingHuggies » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:48 pm

Shiroe wrote:
KoalaKingHuggies wrote:
litari wrote:why do you want max healer AND max revive? if you have max revive, you dont need any healing. they never heal, they simply revive..

Cant look closely at it since Im on mobile atm, just something I was wondering :P

healer lowers resting time when succeeds (like energetic) but affects the whole team.
revive allows revival after injury.
- 100% energetic only: no rest time, full injury time
- 100% revive only: full rest time, no injury time
- 90% healer only: 10% rest time, 10% injury time
- 100% energetic + 90% healer: no rest time, 10% injury time
- 100% energetic + 100% revive: no rest time, no injury time

that is why i want either healer + revive or energetic + revive

The 5 bullet points are correct, but instead of listing points 4 and 5, your conclusion then lists point 5 and an unlisted one...

Point 4 is the common transition from mid to late game.
A team of 6 has 7 slots per hero, so 42 total.
Per hero you'll mostly have 1-2 energetic items to get the 100% energetic.
The leader might have a Leader item to get to the party size of 6.
6-7 Support should be enough to get break chance down to maybe something like 1 break every half year and depending on packages will take 3-7 slots.
For Healer, if the team has no Azula, Oneira, Minh, you might be looking at up to 9 slots for healer (Heroic Pack 2 has a Healer II ring @ legendary though).
So worst case (heroes without relevant skills, all tier 1 skill items) you'd have 42 - 12 (Energetic) - 1 (Leader) - 7 (Support) - 9 (Healer) = 13 slots left for things like Speedrunner, extra loot or extra power after making a no rest, short injury, virtually never breaks anything team.


Point 5 I guess is near the transition from late to end game.
Instead of up to 9 slots for healer, you have up to 20 needed for revive! Which isn't really viable unless you stuff in some Revive II/Revive III to reduce that number, which sticks you with high level mythicals and legendary Keeper of Souls... Also: it looks like revive+energetic+support is a worse musical chairs slot-wise than healer+energetic+support. (I wish I had Midas Gloves from the Heroic Pack 1, so I could shove Support into the under-used gloves slot...) Technically, once you can run such a team, you can switch over most extra power items to extra loot items, since you just need to reach the party power minimum, while individual heroes can run with orange or red face without consequences. :|



so basically my end game goal is setting teams with the following:
1.full energetic
2.full healer
3.7 support per team

i have midas gloves, so i can use them (i have practically all packs i think)
i usually use kurul, edward and gauvin for 6 man hero teams (and i have 2 5 hero teams too) so i wont need a leader skill for 6 men team there.

so, just throwing this out, is there a suggestion for 5 teams that will be able to go for that quest with the 3 conditions and while putting on as many bonus materials as possible? i might be able to figure out their build according to their teams if i manage to make teams properly.

also, if you say i should instead give heroes item to make a 6 man team ill accept it too. im just trying to make left from right in this mess.

thanks for your help by the way. ill probably set teams with full energetic and try to shove in some healer 2 items too.

litari
"Good" Mastery Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:44 am

Re: Help me please

Postby litari » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:58 pm

KoalaKingHuggies wrote:
litari wrote:why do you want max healer AND max revive? if you have max revive, you dont need any healing. they never heal, they simply revive..

Cant look closely at it since Im on mobile atm, just something I was wondering :P

healer lowers resting time when succeeds (like energetic) but affects the whole team.
revive allows revival after injury.
- 100% energetic only: no rest time, full injury time
- 100% revive only: full rest time, no injury time
- 90% healer only: 10% rest time, 10% injury time
- 100% energetic + 90% healer: no rest time, 10% injury time
- 100% energetic + 100% revive: no rest time, no injury time

that is why i want either healer + revive or energetic + revive


so if what you say is true, then:
- 100% revive + 90%healer: 10% rest time, no injury time.

and that would still mean that revive+energetic is straight up better than healer+revive. so Id still say first you go for healer+energetic and once you can, go for revive+energetic. Never revive+healer since its just straight up worse?

(I thought I understood the skill system, but obviously not. please tell me if Im wrong:P)
In-game: litari#54358, First knife crafted: 22/03/16, City: Eolythes, Level: 59, NW: 320G, Items unlocked: 603, Packs owned: 4 (sig updated: 18/01-03)

KoalaKingHuggies
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:54 pm

Re: Help me please

Postby KoalaKingHuggies » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:13 pm

litari wrote:
KoalaKingHuggies wrote:
litari wrote:why do you want max healer AND max revive? if you have max revive, you dont need any healing. they never heal, they simply revive..

Cant look closely at it since Im on mobile atm, just something I was wondering :P

healer lowers resting time when succeeds (like energetic) but affects the whole team.
revive allows revival after injury.
- 100% energetic only: no rest time, full injury time
- 100% revive only: full rest time, no injury time
- 90% healer only: 10% rest time, 10% injury time
- 100% energetic + 90% healer: no rest time, 10% injury time
- 100% energetic + 100% revive: no rest time, no injury time

that is why i want either healer + revive or energetic + revive


so if what you say is true, then:
- 100% revive + 90%healer: 10% rest time, no injury time.

and that would still mean that revive+energetic is straight up better than healer+revive. so Id still say first you go for healer+energetic and once you can, go for revive+energetic. Never revive+healer since its just straight up worse?

(I thought I understood the skill system, but obviously not. please tell me if Im wrong:P)



Im not sure i understand it either. Also, i dont really want to switch my entire setup twice. Im trying to desig my final setup, one i wont have to change probably, ever.

User avatar
Shiroe
"Legendary" Mastery Member
Posts: 2663
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:05 am
Location: the Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Help me please

Postby Shiroe » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:19 am

KoalaKingHuggies wrote:Im not sure i understand it either. Also, i dont really want to switch my entire setup twice. Im trying to desig my final setup, one i wont have to change probably, ever.

It doesn't really work that way.
24 heroes in 4 revive+energetic + other relevant skills teams probably takes at least 10 times the time/effort or probably even much more than that in gems than 24 heroes in 4 healer+energetic + other relevant skills teams.

I'm not even sure even Bloop got beyond 2 revive teams?
I think people that have managed to make a Kuro Shobi led 75% speedrunner revive+energetic team and for fun have done a silly high raid score with that team, mostly see themselves as "having finished the current state of the game, waiting for Cloudcade to add new content".

So building healer+energetic relatively quickly and then going on the months long grind for your first revive+energetic team is what most do.
(at 90% healer, injury time questing horns is still 33 hours, 36 minutes...)

Unless you have lots of items adding power, going for the heroes with Leader as skill instead of for ex. Amazon III/II or Brothers-in-Arms III/II, it may make you struggle at questing shards and horns until you have full revive and color of faces doesn't matter aymore.

(BTW, if you relied on in-game skill tooltips to try and figure out skills, those are quite terrible. for ex:
"companions" == whole party, including the hero with the skills.
"party's survival rate" == power boost to both hero power and gear power for every hero in the party)


edit: Teambuilding 102 ( viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6237 ) really is a nice resource to start building the teams.
as of 2016-09-11: Player level: 44, City: Eolythes, Blueprints: 517, Mastered: 419, Crafted: 78.61K
(except for tier 1 and some tier 2 artifacts mostly running my shop/gearing self sufficient)

KoalaKingHuggies
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:54 pm

Re: Help me please

Postby KoalaKingHuggies » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:29 am

Shiroe wrote:
KoalaKingHuggies wrote:Im not sure i understand it either. Also, i dont really want to switch my entire setup twice. Im trying to desig my final setup, one i wont have to change probably, ever.

It doesn't really work that way.
24 heroes in 4 revive+energetic + other relevant skills teams probably takes at least 10 times the time/effort or probably even much more than that in gems than 24 heroes in 4 healer+energetic + other relevant skills teams.

I'm not even sure even Bloop got beyond 2 revive teams?
I think people that have managed to make a Kuro Shobi led 75% speedrunner revive+energetic team and for fun have done a silly high raid score with that team, mostly see themselves as "having finished the current state of the game, waiting for Cloudcade to add new content".

So building healer+energetic relatively quickly and then going on the months long grind for your first revive+energetic team is what most do.
(at 90% healer, injury time questing horns is still 33 hours, 36 minutes...)

Unless you have lots of items adding power, going for the heroes with Leader as skill instead of for ex. Amazon III/II or Brothers-in-Arms III/II, it may make you struggle at questing shards and horns until you have full revive and color of faces doesn't matter aymore.

(BTW, if you relied on in-game skill tooltips to try and figure out skills, those are quite terrible. for ex:
"companions" == whole party, including the hero with the skills.
"party's survival rate" == power boost to both hero power and gear power for every hero in the party)


edit: Teambuilding 102 ( http://forum.shopheroes.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6237 ) really is a nice resource to start building the teams.



thing is i know it will take a lot of time, im just trying to make my final build instead of switching between builds multiple times.

User avatar
aks47u
"Flawless" Mastery Member
Posts: 301
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:17 am

Re: Help me please

Postby aks47u » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:00 am

From the master theorycrafter himself in the Teambuilding 102 topic


Return to “Strategy & Guides”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

©2015 Cloudcade, Inc. All Rights Reserved.