Confessions of a Shop Heroes Grinder

Discuss anything related to Shop Heroes gameplay.
Wevvster
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Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:48 pm

Confessions of a Shop Heroes Grinder

Postby Wevvster » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:17 pm

Confessions of a Shop Heroes Grinder

Hello, my name is Wevv. I have been playing Shop Heroes for… a long time. More than 2 years, less than 4, I’m not sure. What I am sure about is that I play every day, checking in multiple times per day, averaging roughly an hour or so. It's my OCD game. I spend about an hour or two a day on it. It’s gotten more and more frustrating as I play, the main reason is:

I refuse to put any more real money into this game. I

I did early on, spending maybe $20 bucks for Fountain gems. I remember never getting the full 3,000 due to some game update. I haven’t spent any money since.

Here are screenshots of my stats.

Image
Image


Here’s also a screenshot of my wheel stats. I have only gotten a key ONCE out it, that I can remember. It breaks down to: 70% gold (50% lowest, 35% middle, 15% highest), 15% free spins, 8% stuff (crafting components 65%, items 35%), 7% fragments and gems), roughly.


Image
Image

The main reason I keep playing is it’s not a timed game, and I can play when I have a moment, and need to get a satisfaction boost for completing a task. Currently, my end goal is to master every item, before they add new ones. I’m almost there. The main reason for this lengthily rant is basically to give the viewpoint of some one who isn’t paying to play, and give feedback on the game mechanics before I put this game away for good.

Point #1) Gold is almost worthless.

The name of the game has shopkeeper in it, so it’s an economy-based game. You make gold to upgrade your store, so you can make better things that will bring you more gold. Or gems in the Trade House. Use to your heroes is secondary. However, there is a point where gold from sales and accomplishing achievements is ludicrous. Example, for crafting 250,000 items I will get….1 million gold. I can make that by selling 1 good phoenix dust surcharged.

In all my time playing this game, I only felt strapped for gold a few times. Upgrading the shop without gems (1 Trillion, and that didn’t take as long as I thought it would. Maybe a couple of weeks? I don’t remember), and very early on, when I was learning about equipping my heroes with stuff that wouldn’t break constantly.

Point 2) Chests are crap

I don’t spend gems on chests anymore than I spend gems on extra wheel spins. Which is to say, never. The only reason I open chests is to get blueprints and I only open chests with raid keys. I say raid keys; since that is the only place I get them. I think I have gotten a key or two from quests, wheel, etc., in the entire time I’ve been playing. Again, since I put no money in the game I am at the bottom of the probability scale. You can figure out the rates, but for the blueprints I need, I would have to spend 500 gems for a CHANCE, not a sure thing, but a CHANCE to get a blueprint. I would be royally pissed to get dragonscale for 500 gems. Oh, and dragonscale is the most worthless crafting component ever. Go to the trade house and see for yourself. As of this writing, over 6,000 offers to SELL dragonscale for the CHEAPEST AMOUNT POSSIBLE. 500 gems for that? No thanks. I can basically buy whatever piece of equipment needed at the unbreakable (EPIC) level for less than that. You have about the same odds as a lottery ticket. Great when you win, still fun getting something good, but mostly, a lot of frustration and regret.

This leads nicely into my next point:

#3) It’s really a gem based economy


Everything you really need to do in this game costs gems, not gold. Speed up a crafting item? Gems. Fusion? Gems. Equipment for heroes? Gems. Shop upgrades in a hurry? Gems. Heck, buy a lottery ticket (i.e. Chests)? Gems. In the game, the way to get gems is very limited. Lottery items like chests, wheel, quest payoffs, bags, etc. are limited to small amount per shot. But if you gets gems for a lottery item, it’s usually a losing deal (40 gems for a 250 chest? 50 gems for a n extra wheel spin results in 40 gems won). Raids help, but not enough to thrive on. If you need a source of gems you’re going to have to go to the Trade House to get them. And that means you’re going to need to have something worth paying for in gems. That means a perfect or better item, or a blueprint item you paid for (either real money, fragments, etc).

The global economy is not in the greatest of shapes. While you can still get a decent amount of gems for quality low-level item, the higher-level items are drying up. For example, Twilight robes and Golden Gauntlet perfects can be bought with gold, and not that much of it either (20-30 million).

#4) Shop and Character Appeal are pointless statistics


I have yet to figure out how these stats matter, other than personal appeal. Seriously, you can have no shop appeal whatsoever, but buyers will still show up. Upgrade your shop, you get more customers. Does that have to do with how your character is dressed? Not in the slightest. But hey, it’s your money and if you really want to spend 300 gems on cat ears, more power to you. I’d rather buy a legendary King’s Gauntlet (great for max level Karal) for less than 200 gems. Again, your call.

#5) People who spend money level up quicker than those who don’t

Looking at the spreadsheets resources for experience, it’s clear to see that you can get up to five times the experience for selling a purchased blueprint item compared to a regular game item several levels higher. So be prepared for the long haul unless you shell out real money.

So, how to improve upon this? I have some suggestions, but each has a level of risk. I’ll give my pro’s and cons for each:

1) Sell Gold for Gems
Pros – Removes excess gold from the game and moves it to a more liquid commodity. Gets back to the basic premise of the game of selling items for money
Cons- could wreak havoc on the trade house as gems based items drop and more complicated items flood the market. On the other hand, with more gems in play, it could make players be willing to part with them more quickly, meaning more impulse buying.

Basically, it would have to be a truly disgusting amount of gold for a pittance of gems. Like 1 G for 15 gems.


2) Have shop buyers offer gems for quality items
You know how characters show up demanding your flawless and epic items and offer an insulting amount of gold for them? Kinda like that, only now they offer gems
Pros: I’d be more than willing to sell Theor a flawless jade amulet
Cons: I wouldn’t be willing to sell Theor an Epic Valkyrie Armor

Boils down to what they want to buy and how much they’re offering. Could be useful getting rid of items that are not moving well in the Trade House

3) Come up with a way to purchase blueprint fragments

This is the crux for most game players. Spending gems is the obvious answer.

You are offered a chance to obtain fragments frequently, but the odds are against you. The higher the item level, the more fragments you need to obtain. I’ve argued this with folks on online chat a couple of times and haven’t really heard a convincing argument against offer fragments as raid rewards instead of chest. From what I can see, offering chests is a way for the company to increase revenue, as clients buy more gems to open more chests. While if they give away more fragments, it lessens the chest based purchases.

I also heard that Cloudcade offers plenty of ways to get fragments, from daily tasks, to wheel spins. Well, let’s take a look.

Image

From my screen shot, to get a level 30 item, it takes over 50 fragments. One per day from quests, (some are not so easy, as when you have to sell a certain low level item and you only have one guy that can actually buy it), so say 7 per week. 7 weeks and if lucky, you can now purchase 1 level 30 blueprint!

Of course, you have to buy enough before that to get there. Right now, as obsessively as I play, I get a new blueprint every other month, though it’s getting harder as the price goes up.

So, those are my main suggestions, other than being able to turn off the animations for reverent things like quest completions and completed fusing. Waste of time, and tapping through can cause you to buy an extra slot you really don’t need or want.

Thanks for reading and I appreciate any feedback you wish to provide and I’ll be happy to discuss any other quirks of the game or tips. I haven’t been a member of the community for long. I mainly relied on the wiki to get answers to my questions.

Keep on grinding.

peteypie99
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Re: Confessions of a Shop Heroes Grinder

Postby peteypie99 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:02 pm

#1. Welcome to the community! You seem like a really upbeat and nice person. So, that's awesome.

#2. If you've perused the forum at all, you'll see that we often ask for ETAs/updates/news and never get any real information other than, coming soon. With enough time, you'll find that "soon" is a very subjective term. :)

#3. Feedback: If you are OCD and locked into the game for an hour or two, I can offer a suggestion to speed the acquisition of blueprints. I noted you said you get about 7 bp fragments a week by doing the daily quest. A common tactic discussed in the forum for increasing amount of fragments is running sewers ad nauseum. By that I mean,

- It's been noted that a group of 4 is the minimum amount needed in order to have a BP fragment show up as a bonus reward during questing.
- By sending out countless sewer quests, you can grind out BP fragments (and your free time, and patience) depending on how dedicated you are to the process. I've had some citymates just do that for their entire playing time and get 10+ fragments in a single day. The process drives me bonkers, but I know it works.
- You can either remove all breakable equipment if groups of 4 would cause breakage, or, equip your heroes appropriately such that they would never suffer breakage regardless of grouping. Strictly speaking, if you can get heroes that are energetic and unbreakable by 4's, then you can run lots more sewer quests in the given time.
- If you do this, be prepared to throw out lots of low level junk items that will clog your inventory.

Anyway, nice to meet you! Hope it helps! Hope the game's not dying out like my city! :)

Arty
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Re: Confessions of a Shop Heroes Grinder

Postby Arty » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:22 am

Wevvster wrote:Currently, my end goal is to master every item, before they add new ones. I’m almost there.

I am going to assume that you only mean standard items here, because with your current playing style you will never get most of the chest blueprints.


Wevvster wrote:Point #1) Gold is almost worthless.

I kinda agree. Aside from getting building boosts and replacing arena opponents the game itself doesn't provide a lot of use for gold once the shop and city are maxed out. That said, it is still possible to flip gold to gems via the trade house. Of course those ratios get worse as time goes on, but it's still possible.


Wevvster wrote:Point 2) Chests are crap

I don’t spend gems on chests anymore than I spend gems on extra wheel spins. Which is to say, never.
...
but for the blueprints I need, I would have to spend 500 gems for a CHANCE, not a sure thing, but a CHANCE to get a blueprint. I would be royally pissed to get dragonscale for 500 gems.
...
500 gems for that? No thanks. I can basically buy whatever piece of equipment needed at the unbreakable (EPIC) level for less than that.

I kinda disagree here. Sure, if equipping your heroes with unbreakable stuff is your only goal for hero equipment, then chests are really not worth the opening cost. Many players want item skills though, and then chest blueprints are a must have, especially as a free player. Of course that requires a huge amount of gems (you won't get far with only fragments) but at least there aren't too many other must haves that require gems. After getting additional fusion slots and upgrading a variety of slots I consider opening chests the best use for my gems. At least until I have gotten all the blueprints (or at least all the good ones). Sure, sometimes you get something like dragon scales which have practically zero value, but other times you get a blueprint or at least some useful or sellable item. You can't just lok at the worst possible outcome. Just decide if the average cost of a blueprint is worth it for you. The blueprints allow you to build well-skilled quest teams, which are practically necessary for the two highest quests and will generally get you a lot more rewards (including gems, fragments, valuable items) from quests/raids. For many players this is one of their main goals in the game, so chest opening is mandatory for them.


Wevvster wrote:#3) It’s really a gem based economy

In a large part yes, but that's not exactly unexpected. Games always try to entice players to buy premium currency.
That said, most of
Wevvster wrote:Everything you really need to do in this game costs gems, not gold. Speed up a crafting item? Gems. Fusion? Gems. Equipment for heroes? Gems. Shop upgrades in a hurry? Gems. Heck, buy a lottery ticket (i.e. Chests)? Gems.

is not really needed. Speed ups are just a typical way to rip off impatient players that can't control themselves. You really don't need to spend gems for that. And equipment for heroes can be fused, you don't necessarily need gems for that.


Wevvster wrote:For example, Twilight robes and Golden Gauntlet perfects can be bought with gold, and not that much of it either (20-30 million).

Why would you expect any different? Not only are those exceptionally easy to make, but there is hardly any use for them. Sure, they can be somewhat useful as long as a player wants unbreakable equipment, but for many players that lasts only a short while after which those items end up in the tradehouse again. Prices inevitably go down.



Wevvster wrote:#4) Shop and Character Appeal are pointless statistics

I have yet to figure out how these stats matter, other than personal appeal.

You can stop trying to figure that out. They have no meaning for the gameplay, only for the ranklist and your personal well-being if you care about such stuff. Afaik at least Shop Appeal was originally supposed to influence the return time of the customers, but that idea was eventually scrapped.


Wevvster wrote:But hey, it’s your money and if you really want to spend 300 gems on cat ears, more power to you. I’d rather buy a legendary King’s Gauntlet (great for max level Karal) for less than 200 gems.

Everyone has their personal goals and playing styles. And while I also don't care about aesthetics, I would also consider spending 200 gems on those legendary King's Gauntlets a total waste.



Wevvster wrote:#5) People who spend money level up quicker than those who don’t

Looking at the spreadsheets resources for experience, it’s clear to see that you can get up to five times the experience for selling a purchased blueprint item compared to a regular game item several levels higher. So be prepared for the long haul unless you shell out real money.

Sure, a paying player has it potentially easier to do things in the game, including levelling. But aside from the fact that the shopkeeper level isn't even that important, I think you overestimate the relevance of owning bought blueprints for levelling:
  • Required XP per level grows almost exponentially. Someone with 5-times as many total XP is only 3-7 levels ahead. (Below the mid-forties only even 3-5 levels.)
  • If you rely on your own production, only a few blueprints are extremely good for making gold/xp, and I think of those are more from chests (which technically don't require any money) than from packs.
  • Playing time plays a much bigger role, because you can't just sell 100 items in a minute. You always need to wait for your customers to come back.
  • You can get huge amounts of XP from reselling stuff that you bought in the tradehouse, no blueprints required. Especially in the early and late game this is easily possible with no or very small net cost. In the middle it is somewhat harder to find cheap stuff in the tradehouse though.
    And I speak from personal experience here. I recently made it to Lvl 66 after 19 months of free play.


Wevvster wrote:1) Sell Gold for Gems
...
Basically, it would have to be a truly disgusting amount of gold for a pittance of gems. Like 1 G for 15 gems.

At this ratio hardly anybody would use this (yet). Flipping ratios in the tradehouse have become bad but not that bad (yet). The real problem (for CC) though is comes when such a conversion actually becomes interesting (whether by starting off with a "better" rate or by waiting till gold worth has dropped enough). It would probably create too many gems out of nothing, at least too many for CC's liking because they want us to spend money on gems.


Wevvster wrote:2) Have shop buyers offer gems for quality items

Might be nice. Would probably stabilize trade house gem prices for unimportant high quality items somewhat above the hero offer price. Some players would be happy to get a decent amount of gems for this stuff and/or to save the hassle of doing this in the trade house. Others would probably dislike it because they don't get enough cheap fusion fodder.


Wevvster wrote:3) Come up with a way to purchase blueprint fragments
This is the crux for most game players.

Is it? I certainly wouldn't mind getting more fragments somehow (as raid reward or wherever), but there is no way CC will allow us to get them easily in large quantities. I think you might have a wrong idea about what those fragments are for. They are not meant to allow you to get all chest blueprints in a reasonable time, afterall CC wants you to spend gems on opening chests. Those fragments are merely a small bonus to allow to buy a few important blueprints directly or to just work on getting them very very very very slowly without opening chests.
And as peteypie99 has already explained, you can farm those fragments somewhat easily if you are willing to spend the time (and possibly some sanity).


Wevvster wrote:Waste of time, and tapping through can cause you to buy an extra slot you really don’t need or want.

I click through a lot of animations, but I don't think I ever encountered an instance where I could accidentally buy some slot. (I have accidentally wasted gems on upgrading useless gear though.)
What kind of slots are you referring to?
If you mean the extra fusion slots and think that you don't need or want them, then you somehow haven't grasped their importance yet.
And if you mean production/quest/trade slots, what's the problem of buying those, they cost only gold.
Or did you mean "upgrading" a slot? Okay, that is really not necessary for all slots. Not sure where I would potentially come close to accidentally doing that though.

Hime
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Re: Confessions of a Shop Heroes Grinder

Postby Hime » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:05 am

I've only been playing for a couple months (not much to show: level 43, 27G net worth), and I do see the issues that you've raised. Note that I have not spent any money in the game, so my perspective is from a F2P.

That said, I haven't really seen it as THAT BIG of an issue to me.
We have a gem-based economy? Excellent, let me try to figure out how to turn my gold into gems. Been averaging about 50-60 a day at the tradehouse by just buying items and selling them for gems, so it's kind of fun.

Sure, all of the premium upgrades require gems, but if I were paying real money, why shouldn't I enjoy some premium features?
The fact that f2p players even get an opportunity to get (potentially lots) of gems in a relatively not-so-hard way (quests, raids, daily spin, trading, leveling up) is pretty generous.

I think if you spent less time on the game, you would be able to enjoy it more.
While it is impressive that you've been here for over 2 years, you're definitely becoming exhausted.

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Shiroe
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Re: Confessions of a Shop Heroes Grinder

Postby Shiroe » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:07 am

Arty wrote:
Wevvster wrote:#5) People who spend money level up quicker than those who don’t

Looking at the spreadsheets resources for experience, it’s clear to see that you can get up to five times the experience for selling a purchased blueprint item compared to a regular game item several levels higher. So be prepared for the long haul unless you shell out real money.

Sure, a paying player has it potentially easier to do things in the game, including levelling. But aside from the fact that the shopkeeper level isn't even that important, I think you overestimate the relevance of owning bought blueprints for levelling:
  • Required XP per level grows almost exponentially. Someone with 5-times as many total XP is only 3-7 levels ahead. (Below the mid-forties only even 3-5 levels.)
  • If you rely on your own production, only a few blueprints are extremely good for making gold/xp, and I think of those are more from chests (which technically don't require any money) than from packs.
  • Playing time plays a much bigger role, because you can't just sell 100 items in a minute. You always need to wait for your customers to come back.
  • You can get huge amounts of XP from reselling stuff that you bought in the tradehouse, no blueprints required. Especially in the early and late game this is easily possible with no or very small net cost. In the middle it is somewhat harder to find cheap stuff in the tradehouse though.
    And I speak from personal experience here. I recently made it to Lvl 66 after 19 months of free play.

Some additional notes: as far as I know chest items give the same exp as package items and shopkeeper progress is pretty de-coupled from other progress, since it just depends on items gotten from anywhere sold to customers and only facilitates unlocks. (I think there was a 100G+ networth fully built lvl 9 player hanging around a top city at one point... And you can also have lvl 45 powerleveled newbies.)

For gold, if RNGesus isn't giving you any moneymaker chest blueprints and you can't quest your own horns for Dragonfire Potion, then Azure Boots (last of the heavy boots line) isn't such a bad gold grinder: no precraft, so doesn't keep your cauldron busy, Frostfire Crystal as highest artifact needed, 8.375M base price after mastering and plenty of heroes should be in its lvl 38-52 suggest range.
But other than that common blueprints are mostly precraft/fusion fodder.

About gold to blueprint progress conversion: I'm wondering how close we are to the point where doing inn-boosted low quest runs for fragments and gems as special loot would be a better gold investment than tradehouse flipping to gems...
as of 2016-09-11: Player level: 44, City: Eolythes, Blueprints: 517, Mastered: 419, Crafted: 78.61K
(except for tier 1 and some tier 2 artifacts mostly running my shop/gearing self sufficient)

Leggitte2
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Re: Confessions of a Shop Heroes Grinder

Postby Leggitte2 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:33 am

Arty wrote:If you mean the extra fusion slots and think that you don't need or want them, then you somehow haven't grasped their importance yet.


I only took my cauldron out of storage 2 weeks ago (been in storage for at least 6 months) and can't think of any good reason to get a 4th fusion slot. What am I not understanding? Why is it so important?

Kind regards,

Leg

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Mandlz01
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Re: Confessions of a Shop Heroes Grinder

Postby Mandlz01 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:51 am

Shiroe wrote:(I think there was a 100G+ networth fully built lvl 9 player hanging around a top city at one point... And you can also have lvl 45 powerleveled newbies.)


There is such a player in Redemption. Level 9, 148.26G Networth. Think he mostly crafts ocarinas and sells on the tradehouse. Pretty easy to stay low level but rack up the gold in this fashion, since you only get XP if you sell to heroes.
You make it sound as if it's going to be hard
Mandlz#78065

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Shiroe
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Re: Confessions of a Shop Heroes Grinder

Postby Shiroe » Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:57 am

Leggitte2 wrote:
Arty wrote:If you mean the extra fusion slots and think that you don't need or want them, then you somehow haven't grasped their importance yet.


I only took my cauldron out of storage 2 weeks ago (been in storage for at least 6 months) and can't think of any good reason to get a 4th fusion slot. What am I not understanding? Why is it so important?

Kind regards,

Leg

I guess we all have our quirks. For you, it's not fusing, for Dan not running Support, for me it's very little moneymaker grinding and trying to make 99% of my precrafts/wearables myself.
as of 2016-09-11: Player level: 44, City: Eolythes, Blueprints: 517, Mastered: 419, Crafted: 78.61K
(except for tier 1 and some tier 2 artifacts mostly running my shop/gearing self sufficient)

Ronin
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Re: Confessions of a Shop Heroes Grinder

Postby Ronin » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:17 pm

Shiroe wrote:
About gold to blueprint progress conversion: I'm wondering how close we are to the point where doing inn-boosted low quest runs for fragments and gems as special loot would be a better gold investment than tradehouse flipping to gems...


We're definitely at that point now. I'm at lvl 50+ primals atm, where imputed gem value is at their lowest, and based on past sewer run data, my expected return from a 6 4-man teams running sewers is like 2.64 gems/run (2% frag chance[1] x 6 teams x 22 gems/frag), which turns a profit compared to tradehouse flipping even if i 3x boost inn.

For someone in the iron/gold/magic bp range....it's waaay higher. It's just really, really boring and tedious.


[1] IIRC from that the thread where someone posted data from a few hundred sewer runs.

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Re: Confessions of a Shop Heroes Grinder

Postby Ronin » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:32 pm

Leggitte2 wrote:
Arty wrote:If you mean the extra fusion slots and think that you don't need or want them, then you somehow haven't grasped their importance yet.


I only took my cauldron out of storage 2 weeks ago (been in storage for at least 6 months) and can't think of any good reason to get a 4th fusion slot. What am I not understanding? Why is it so important?

Kind regards,

Leg


I have a 4-slot cauldron, 3 of which are upgraded. When I use the cauldron to make stuff to sell on TH (rather than fusing gear for my heroes or my own precrafts), I average well above 300 gems/day in profit.


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