Tier 1 hero max levels seem imbalanced

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alanx
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Tier 1 hero max levels seem imbalanced

Postby alanx » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:11 am

I know that the levels have increased progressively over time however we now have a situation where the max levels are as follows:
tier 5 : 55
tier 4 : 50
tier 3 : 45
tier 2 : 40
tier 1 : 35,30,25 .....why?

wouldn't it be better to make all tier1 heroes cap out at 35 and be done with it?

I just feel that having karal milena garreth theor the same levels as clovis and minh would resolve any discrepancies. They were all level 25 or 30 at one point in the past. There are at least 5-6 heroes at any tier while there are only 2 heroes each at 25,30 and 35 respectively...Having 6 of them at level35 only seems more balanced...

I know this change wouldn't be groundbreaking or have any earth shattering effects but I am sure most mid tier folks would find good use of this.

thoughts?

Tkshowers
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Re: Tier 1 hero max levels seem imbalanced

Postby Tkshowers » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:54 am

Agreed, but then I would have no hero’s who can buy that daily bp item instead of one...

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Shiroe
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Re: Tier 1 hero max levels seem imbalanced

Postby Shiroe » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:16 am

- there were complaints about people having to re-do gear when max levels got bumped (fewer skilled items available especially at the first level bump)
- early/mid game your heroes get way ahead of what you can craft, so the first two capping at 25 is kind of mandatory or early/early-mid players would probably have to trash or tradehouse-sell half their crafts. (most craftlines being at about 20, while Melina/Karal would already be at 30-31 would really mess up gameplay for those players)

Tkshowers wrote:Agreed, but then I would have no hero’s who can buy that daily bp item instead of one...

No you wouldn't. As far as I know it selects from the pool of craftable items that can be bought by 1 or more available heroes at the second the daily procs. (though heroes at the Inn with a "buy me" coin over their head might also be factored in based on forum/facebook/world chat dailies problems and solutions)
Hero levelups after the daily procs, are as far as I know the only thing that can actually block a player from completing it.
as of 2016-09-11: Player level: 44, City: Eolythes, Blueprints: 517, Mastered: 419, Crafted: 78.61K
(except for tier 1 and some tier 2 artifacts mostly running my shop/gearing self sufficient)

Mitrax
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Re: Tier 1 hero max levels seem imbalanced

Postby Mitrax » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:59 pm

daily bp > only items can sold

level of heroes > doesnt matter with support, ressourceful and myth+10 :lol:
in additional > set level from "0" up to "herolvl+7" for their request's....

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Mitrax

alanx
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Re: Tier 1 hero max levels seem imbalanced

Postby alanx » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:06 pm

Shiroe wrote:- there were complaints about people having to re-do gear when max levels got bumped (fewer skilled items available especially at the first level bump)
- early/mid game your heroes get way ahead of what you can craft, so the first two capping at 25 is kind of mandatory or early/early-mid players would probably have to trash or tradehouse-sell half their crafts. (most craftlines being at about 20, while Melina/Karal would already be at 30-31 would really mess up gameplay for those players)


1. Someone will always have complaints for any and every change. It’s not like it didn’t happen before. People managed just fine. It would take time but wouldn’t it also give people things to work on? I don’t know how having more things to do can be bad given the current state of the game. What I’m asking for is to make it a final thing and just permanently let it stay at 35. I think long term it’s more convenience than inconvenience.
2. How would two heroes capping at 25 would have the level of impact when other heroes are leveling just fine? Also for someone to breakthrough levels that fast they would be playing very actively and if that’s the case they’re most likely following guides which would make all the lower level items of little use to them when they know exactly what there after. Again, just changing levels for the lowest tier heroes to cap at a better level isn’t useful for just low and mid tier but also for end game players. For healer comps it would mean easier green faces. For revive comps it would mean slightly easier quest power reach.

The pros outweigh the cons in this case.

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Shiroe
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Re: Tier 1 hero max levels seem imbalanced

Postby Shiroe » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:48 am

alanx wrote:
Shiroe wrote:- early/mid game your heroes get way ahead of what you can craft, so the first two capping at 25 is kind of mandatory or early/early-mid players would probably have to trash or tradehouse-sell half their crafts. (most craftlines being at about 20, while Melina/Karal would already be at 30-31 would really mess up gameplay for those players)

2. How would two heroes capping at 25 would have the level of impact when other heroes are leveling just fine? Also for someone to breakthrough levels that fast they would be playing very actively and if that’s the case they’re most likely following guides which would make all the lower level items of little use to them when they know exactly what there after. Again, just changing levels for the lowest tier heroes to cap at a better level isn’t useful for just low and mid tier but also for end game players. For healer comps it would mean easier green faces. For revive comps it would mean slightly easier quest power reach.

swords:
maces: Karal
daggers: Melina
staves: Melina
axes: Karal
bows: Melina
spears: Karal
guns:
armor: Karal
clothes: Melina
vests: Karal
shields: Karal
helmets: Karal
hats: Melina
gauntlets: Karal
bracers: Melina
boots: Karal
footwear: Melina
remedies: Melina
spells: Melina
potions: Karal
projectiles: Karal
rings: Melina
instruments:
pendants: Melina, Karal

22 of the 25 lines covered by just 2 heroes.

On my authorized alt with my knowledge I tried to rush most lines forward as fast as I could, but no matter how I tried, unless I hindered my heroes from leveling from their exp, keeping the tip of the lines within suggest range of the heroes was hard.
While your crafts are already getting a bit more difficult (points needed, precrafts, resources needed), your heroes are still getting a decent chunk of exp towards levelup from the (early) tier 2 quests.
If you make that situation worse, I wouldn't be surprised if that could make as many people early-quit as breaks...

So if you'd want to bump caps of those heroes, you'd probably have to hide those unlocks away at building levels 50+ to protect newbies.
(if those decide to join a city high enough to unlock that, their citymates can dig them out of the hole they jumped into...)
as of 2016-09-11: Player level: 44, City: Eolythes, Blueprints: 517, Mastered: 419, Crafted: 78.61K
(except for tier 1 and some tier 2 artifacts mostly running my shop/gearing self sufficient)

Mitrax
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Re: Tier 1 hero max levels seem imbalanced

Postby Mitrax » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:25 am

To understand it better you should make a overview of all items at each lvl with maxed heroes (sorry Im not good at excel/graph) . I believe there are a lot of items are accepted by only less heroes. So always a hole of selling them.

In the way of the actual version of SH all items up to lvl 17 are trash, if you dont need as a precraft. So we have to clean up daily of this f.... (sorry) items getting from quest.
If each hero would buy them, you only hold locked items in inventory. Therefore i dream of.... :roll:

Vote 4 all heroes lvl 55 :mrgreen:

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Mitrax

Kim!
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Re: Tier 1 hero max levels seem imbalanced

Postby Kim! » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:20 am

Shiroe wrote:On my authorized alt with my knowledge I tried to rush most lines forward as fast as I could, but no matter how I tried, unless I hindered my heroes from leveling from their exp, keeping the tip of the lines within suggest range of the heroes was hard.
While your crafts are already getting a bit more difficult (points needed, precrafts, resources needed), your heroes are still getting a decent chunk of exp towards levelup from the (early) tier 2 quests.
If you make that situation worse, I wouldn't be surprised if that could make as many people early-quit as breaks...

So if you'd want to bump caps of those heroes, you'd probably have to hide those unlocks away at building levels 50+ to protect newbies.
(if those decide to join a city high enough to unlock that, their citymates can dig them out of the hole they jumped into...)

On a related note, I think it's nice for newbies that they max at such low building levels. New players always complain about item breaks, personally i think breaks are a good thing since it forces them to keep equipping better gear, but in early-mid game the idea of permanently unbreakable gear is amazing. Melina and Karal can reach their maxes at building levels 19 and 25, every other hero requires level 49-55 buildings before they max. So having a couple who can get pretty 0% items early is nice, and level 25 items are easy to get up to epic/legendary for those first unbreakables as well.

alanx
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Re: Tier 1 hero max levels seem imbalanced

Postby alanx » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:07 pm

If the issue is actually the buildings then that can be easily remedied by scaling them accordingly. If you guys are worried about hero caps CC can remedy it by not allowing any hero to exceed 7 levels above the shop keeper level. There are many ways to tackle each issue. The problem is the current situation is fundamentally unbalanced. There’s no way to increase karal milena their and garreth levels after you’ve crossed a threshold beyond which all the arguments listed become inapplicable.

The solution to this issue doesn’t have to be a building thing either. These unlocks could even be triggered when the shop keep level reaches 50.
They could also have an option to unlock each hero based on player choice. Sort of an upgrade exp option. Raise the cap only if you want to. Or just raise it directly.

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Shiroe
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Re: Tier 1 hero max levels seem imbalanced

Postby Shiroe » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:00 am

To raise the hero cap levels, they would have to axe the fact that there's a lower cap (-7) on the suggest range.
(personally, I right now refuse my level 47+ customers more than I refuse my lower customers since I'm busy making some wearables and mastering some stuff, so have more lower level items/Tears in stock than high level items.)

As for power, I use the current system's workaround of "weakest gets the good stuff like myth AA gloves, strongest can have that silly Protector shield to buff the weakest further". (since hero level doesn't really mean anything to later game other than power, minor break chance differences @ leg/myth, 3 skill unlocks and suggest range. (don't think I missed anything there))

A few months back there was a topic about some veterans maybe try to get permission for an alts vs alts competition; it probably wouldn't be too bad for veterans to run an alt for 2-3 weeks every year to get re-acquainted with (current) early/mid game. ;)
as of 2016-09-11: Player level: 44, City: Eolythes, Blueprints: 517, Mastered: 419, Crafted: 78.61K
(except for tier 1 and some tier 2 artifacts mostly running my shop/gearing self sufficient)


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