A detailed analysis on end game

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alwaysmiddle
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A detailed analysis on end game

Postby alwaysmiddle » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:54 pm

Google doc version for easier reading.

Edit: Updated the URL link, ironed out most of grammar errors.
Last edited by alwaysmiddle on Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:57 am, edited 3 times in total.

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cc_Darkis
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Re: A detailed analysis on end game

Postby cc_Darkis » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:08 pm

Reading!
"Cauldron is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get."~river#44249 :D
"Gems of Shop Heroes are like diamonds of real life."~Prometheus :o

alwaysmiddle
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Re: A detailed analysis on end game

Postby alwaysmiddle » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:29 pm

Thanks for reading this, I was still editing the formats XD. But it should be readable now, plus millions of grammar errors :D

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Shiroe
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Re: A detailed analysis on end game

Postby Shiroe » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:20 am

Many mechanics are left unexplained, as well as game does not provide players an explanation of an end goal.

Well, it's essentially "make up your own end goal", but it's kind of inherent to the freemium model to have no real/reachable end goal, since ideally that model wants the player to keep playing and paying (shop, gem ads if working) forever... ;-|

About fusion/end game:
- you'll probably have a bunch of people going "eww, that fusing to get a super team is too much work, so I'm not going to do it and maybe quit"
- you'll probably have a bunch of people going "eww, I've fused together those super teams and now all 4 can overkill the horns quest, so is there anything left to do other than to fuse some more to max out raid returns? Maybe I should quit?"

So we kind of really need some post-horns/post-"I can raid 10k+ easily" content if you want to overhaul fusion if you don't want to just push people from category 1 to category 2.

Also fusion: it's too bad things like speeding up fusion with different things or other fuse tricks are not explained at all except by other players.

(same for "no, those special orders aren't daily things you have to rush through; you just leveled up so fast as a newbie that you unlocked a bunch". -_- I wouldn't be surprised if 90+% of items of the first 10-15 special orders are tradehouse-d instead of crafted, so if as I suspect special orders long ago were intended as a "hey, craft all common lines instead of just 2 or 3" measure, that totally failed. (yes, "craft 2 or 3 lines" was the newbie strategy to quicker gold before T1 artifacts at cap gold, before key flipping etc...) </rant> )

Overflow of low T3 dungeon materials:

Mostly due to lack of need of common line items that uses these materials.

I'd say that's an overflow of all T3 below shards. Mid/late game players are questing those faster for hero exp and special loot than they can use up the quested artifacts.

High level common lines are Useless

They really are worthless, outside of npc orders quest currently. But new tier of items will probably use these as precraft, thus solving the problem. Which leads to another tier of useless items if current design stays the same.

Yep, unless you enjoy unlocking, technically few of the lvl 30+ common items are worth grinding away on.
Azure Boots, the precraftless last of the heavy boots line, is an OK money and exp item if you don't have better substitutes from chests or enough horns for Dragonfire Potion from raid, but for the rest precrafts is the only (non-unlocking/mastering) reason to craft some higher level common items.
It's all about chest items for the skills and maybe some package items for more slot flexibility. (though having a hard time trying to figure out which package buy would allow me to un-crowd the weapon/accessories slots for my first Revive team without being too painfully long to get to that high level mythical. :| (I'm making it difficult for myself by targetting green faces on horns though instead of trollfacing with orange/red))
as of 2016-09-11: Player level: 44, City: Eolythes, Blueprints: 517, Mastered: 419, Crafted: 78.61K
(except for tier 1 and some tier 2 artifacts mostly running my shop/gearing self sufficient)

Ronin
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Re: A detailed analysis on end game

Postby Ronin » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:50 pm

From linked URL

So after 379+260.67+267.17 = 908.84 hrs (37.87 Days) Journey + the weeks you spent crafting these, you end up with 3 legendary. On average it takes 5.2 legendary items to reach a mythic item (with premium slot) plus god knows how long fusion time to mythic.

Does this seem reasonable?


I can get on board with many of the issues you discussed about the end-game and I can get on board with complaints about the fusion time jump after lvl 50; but it strikes me as unfair to just count up the hours to make a high level mythic using the obsolute worst possible fusion strategy as the basis to complain about fusion length and/or mythics.

Assuming there are no display bugs with upgraded fusion slots (no guarantees there...),

1 upgraded fusion slot going F+3E with lvl 40-45%ish garbage. Approx 3 days each, will yield 7.5 Es (75%) + 0.65L (6-7%) per month on avg.
1 upgraded fusion slot going E+3L with lvl 30-35ish garbage. At Approx 3.75 days each, will take just under a month to use up the 7.5Es and will yield 6 Ls (80%) and 0.2 M (2.5-3%) using 1 slots worth of time for the month.
You then have enough fusion time left over for 4 M fusions ( 2 x 2 + 2 x 2-3M depending on outcome of 1st two), yielding approx 1.4 M Necro Staves on avg, for total 1.6 M Necro staves of (1.4+0.2).

By my math and using current market prices, you'd use 10 F Necro staves (40 gems each), 30 Garbage Es (45 gems each) and 22.5 Garbage Ls (120 gems each). Not offsetting for the "failures" (lvl 40-45 Ls and lvl 30-35 Ms), total cost of fusion inputs would be 4.5k gems, avg. 150/day, which is easily achievable for an endgame player.

You might think one and a half lvl 53 Ms for an entire month of fusing and that many gems is still too expensive/lengthy, but it's only fair to measure the time/cost according to how a competent player would actually make them.

River
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Re: A detailed analysis on end game

Postby River » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:30 am

Ronin wrote:From linked URL

So after 379+260.67+267.17 = 908.84 hrs (37.87 Days) Journey + the weeks you spent crafting these, you end up with 3 legendary. On average it takes 5.2 legendary items to reach a mythic item (with premium slot) plus god knows how long fusion time to mythic.

Does this seem reasonable?


I can get on board with many of the issues you discussed about the end-game and I can get on board with complaints about the fusion time jump after lvl 50; but it strikes me as unfair to just count up the hours to make a high level mythic using the obsolute worst possible fusion strategy as the basis to complain about fusion length and/or mythics.

Assuming there are no display bugs with upgraded fusion slots (no guarantees there...),

1 upgraded fusion slot going F+3E with lvl 40-45%ish garbage. Approx 3 days each, will yield 7.5 Es (75%) + 0.65L (6-7%) per month on avg.
1 upgraded fusion slot going E+3L with lvl 30-35ish garbage. At Approx 3.75 days each, will take just under a month to use up the 7.5Es and will yield 6 Ls (80%) and 0.2 M (2.5-3%) using 1 slots worth of time for the month.
You then have enough fusion time left over for 4 M fusions ( 2 x 2 + 2 x 2-3M depending on outcome of 1st two), yielding approx 1.4 M Necro Staves on avg, for total 1.6 M Necro staves of (1.4+0.2).

By my math and using current market prices, you'd use 10 F Necro staves (40 gems each), 30 Garbage Es (45 gems each) and 22.5 Garbage Ls (120 gems each). Not offsetting for the "failures" (lvl 40-45 Ls and lvl 30-35 Ms), total cost of fusion inputs would be 4.5k gems, avg. 150/day, which is easily achievable for an endgame player.

You might think one and a half lvl 53 Ms for an entire month of fusing and that many gems is still too expensive/lengthy, but it's only fair to measure the time/cost according to how a competent player would actually make them.


my point is: mythical crafting may take you a year or a week, il may cost you gems or nothing, but are you really enjoying this system?
Do you really enjoy spending your end/middle-game player time into fusion-fusion-usion-usion-on-on-on-on-∞ ?

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Shiroe
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Re: A detailed analysis on end game

Postby Shiroe » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:49 am

River wrote:Do you really enjoy spending your end/middle-game player time into fusion-fusion-usion-usion-on-on-on-on-∞ ?

Well, other than collecting all BPs and mastering them, right now there's not much other than "fusion-fusion-usion-usion-on-on-on-on-∞" to the end game. End game players are kind of in a silly "oh, I've got a 10 megaton bomb that can flatten cities. Let's keep working on slowly upping the megatons so not even ruins remain standing from a bomb drop" situation... (AKA: overkill and the only thing left to do is work on over-over-overkill)
as of 2016-09-11: Player level: 44, City: Eolythes, Blueprints: 517, Mastered: 419, Crafted: 78.61K
(except for tier 1 and some tier 2 artifacts mostly running my shop/gearing self sufficient)

Ronin
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Re: A detailed analysis on end game

Postby Ronin » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:37 am

River wrote:my point is: mythical crafting may take you a year or a week, il may cost you gems or nothing, but are you really enjoying this system?
Do you really enjoy spending your end/middle-game player time into fusion-fusion-usion-usion-on-on-on-on-∞ ?


A fair viewpoint. Similar to how when a friend asks me if I want to go to Las Vegas, I say "I'm not much for gambling or clubs, so I wouldn't enjoy that". What I don't do is say "Las Vegas, how ridiculous! Do you have any idea how long it'd take to walk there? That journey would take months!"

Mitrax
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Re: A detailed analysis on end game

Postby Mitrax » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:50 am

Endgame-Fusion:

If i only fuse highend-gear and using all slots for a week, there is no need to login at this time. Its a kind of game to fuse several times a day. Mostly i dont fuse items for more than 18hrs. If the time is longer, i always use all 4 slots and stay offline. I know what will happen, when i need to wait a week.... I will forget the game and looking for other one to have fun.

All other mentioned by "allwaysmiddle" i do understand. But not affect me as hard as the unbelievable fusion time! Did you calculated +10 for the highest items??? :oops: :oops: :cry: :cry:
or just a lvl 8 item? (coloured powder)

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Mitrax

Dastardlyone
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Re: A detailed analysis on end game

Postby Dastardlyone » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:53 am

the fail chance on 5 legendary to mythic is awful. Very worst kind of RNG.


Fused 5 leg AA gloves to mythic and got a fail...Losing 5 days fuse time and a huge amount of gems on a 63% chance....bad design.


lets not forget aa gloves require 2 flawless to make, and even making a legendary is a grind.

also remember aa gloves give 10% revive, and the goal is 100% revive, any less and you might aswell go healer/energetic.


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