Resource trading nerfed?

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Molly
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Re: Resource trading nerfed?

Postby Molly » Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:15 am

Shiroe wrote:
aks47u wrote:
Joebeajetski wrote:@cc When will be able to buy/sell resources in bulk?

You are able to. You complaining about market supply and demand, and pricing? Or is there actually a problem?

Probably complaining about the non-trivial buying from offers/selling to requests in bulk without needing to use a trade slot.
(price can/will change down the queue)

Ideally, this should be automatic

Joebeajetski
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Re: Resource trading nerfed?

Postby Joebeajetski » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:10 pm

aks47u wrote:
Joebeajetski wrote:@cc When will be able to buy/sell resources in bulk?

You are able to. You complaining about market supply and demand, and pricing? Or is there actually a problem?


I'm not sure I understand your response so let me clarify my question.

When I'm looking to fill let's say 100 requests for a resource that I'm maxed out on it'd be great to just sell off all 100 with one click as opposed to 100 clicks. I know the price offered may be decreased with subsequent requests but I'm ok with part if I'm dumping a ton of resources I don't need. If it would prompt something like "Are you sure you want to sell 100 primal horns for $600,000,000[the total amount offered for the top 100 requests for primal horns] ?"

So by having this I can sell a bunch much more quickly. If there is a way to fill multiple requests at once in iOS I'd be happy to hear about if I'm just not aware of it.

Thanks

Joe

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Shiroe
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Re: Resource trading nerfed?

Postby Shiroe » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:44 am

Joebeajetski wrote:When I'm looking to fill let's say 100 requests for a resource that I'm maxed out on it'd be great to just sell off all 100 with one click as opposed to 100 clicks. I know the price offered may be decreased with subsequent requests but I'm ok with part if I'm dumping a ton of resources I don't need. If it would prompt something like "Are you sure you want to sell 100 primal horns for $600,000,000[the total amount offered for the top 100 requests for primal horns] ?"

So by having this I can sell a bunch much more quickly. If there is a way to fill multiple requests at once in iOS I'd be happy to hear about if I'm just not aware of it.

a) CC probably prefer you to stick those into an upgraded tradeslot ;-|
b) for something that can change price from item to item, you'd be looking at extra elements in an already crowded UI (max amount of them you want, max price difference from first one you accept) and then either the client similating the single clicks until you get the number you want/the price changes too much/you run out of gold
or something like that being done server-side. (hmm, for client-side I forgot the "or until the client cancels the ongoing process")
Since they seem to be a bit scared to tinker with the tradehouse (based on a recent facebook comment, they still haven't been able to fix the fact that some quest artifacts on TH are bugged to have their #requests start at a negative number instead of zero) a server-side way to bulk buy/sell without using a trade slot seems unlikely.


Hmm, next time there's lag, I should do some packet sniffing for the tradehouse. At least for things like collecting/setting raid parties etc, the client seems optimized to minimize data/network use: no matter how much you mass click/tap that send/collect party button, it won't send another packet to the server for it unless it times out after a few seconds. (AKA: for setting/collecting parties during lag, from the side of the client and server, there's no difference between clicking/tapping once about every 5 seconds or mashing that button 3 times a second. Of course the button mashing might aleviate some lag annoyance, but the client will just discard the vast majority of those taps/clicks. ;) )

</Garreth_injured_for_5_minutes_by_crit_from_wall_of_text>
as of 2016-09-11: Player level: 44, City: Eolythes, Blueprints: 517, Mastered: 419, Crafted: 78.61K
(except for tier 1 and some tier 2 artifacts mostly running my shop/gearing self sufficient)

alanx
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Re: Resource trading nerfed?

Postby alanx » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:27 am

Shiroe wrote:
Joebeajetski wrote:When I'm looking to fill let's say 100 requests for a resource that I'm maxed out on it'd be great to just sell off all 100 with one click as opposed to 100 clicks. I know the price offered may be decreased with subsequent requests but I'm ok with part if I'm dumping a ton of resources I don't need. If it would prompt something like "Are you sure you want to sell 100 primal horns for $600,000,000[the total amount offered for the top 100 requests for primal horns] ?"

So by having this I can sell a bunch much more quickly. If there is a way to fill multiple requests at once in iOS I'd be happy to hear about if I'm just not aware of it.

a) CC probably prefer you to stick those into an upgraded tradeslot ;-|
b) for something that can change price from item to item, you'd be looking at extra elements in an already crowded UI (max amount of them you want, max price difference from first one you accept) and then either the client similating the single clicks until you get the number you want/the price changes too much/you run out of gold
or something like that being done server-side. (hmm, for client-side I forgot the "or until the client cancels the ongoing process")
Since they seem to be a bit scared to tinker with the tradehouse (based on a recent facebook comment, they still haven't been able to fix the fact that some quest artifacts on TH are bugged to have their #requests start at a negative number instead of zero) a server-side way to bulk buy/sell without using a trade slot seems unlikely.


Hmm, next time there's lag, I should do some packet sniffing for the tradehouse. At least for things like collecting/setting raid parties etc, the client seems optimized to minimize data/network use: no matter how much you mass click/tap that send/collect party button, it won't send another packet to the server for it unless it times out after a few seconds. (AKA: for setting/collecting parties during lag, from the side of the client and server, there's no difference between clicking/tapping once about every 5 seconds or mashing that button 3 times a second. Of course the button mashing might aleviate some lag annoyance, but the client will just discard the vast majority of those taps/clicks. ;) )

</Garreth_injured_for_5_minutes_by_crit_from_wall_of_text>


This is not practical because resources are bought by a LOT of people around the same time. Suppose 5 people launch a purchase of 100 items with a single click, you now need a serverside arbitrator logic that will differentiate and prioritize the player clicks. Now you need a policy on who get their clicks processed first and how many clicks at a time? since all 5 launched the click when the same the same item price, how to arbitrate? after processing and simulating say 10 clicks, another 5 players launch more requests of 100, over time the arbitrator will get overloaded.This would need to track new additions in offer/requests, handle new trades, cancellations, price changes. Its just too much work that would just result in more lag coz this needs to be done for every resource and then people will want similar features for other items if not 100x at a time then maybe 10x. I think the current system is just fine. If anyone wants 100 resources, put in an upgraded trade slot request of 100.....they do get filled soon enough...

Leggitte2
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Re: Resource trading nerfed?

Postby Leggitte2 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:18 am

alanx wrote:This is not practical because resources are bought by a LOT of people around the same time. Suppose 5 people launch a purchase of 100 items with a single click, you now need a serverside arbitrator logic that will differentiate and prioritize the player clicks. Now you need a policy on who get their clicks processed first and how many clicks at a time? since all 5 launched the click when the same the same item price, how to arbitrate? after processing and simulating say 10 clicks, another 5 players launch more requests of 100, over time the arbitrator will get overloaded.This would need to track new additions in offer/requests, handle new trades, cancellations, price changes. Its just too much work that would just result in more lag coz this needs to be done for every resource and then people will want similar features for other items if not 100x at a time then maybe 10x. I think the current system is just fine. If anyone wants 100 resources, put in an upgraded trade slot request of 100.....they do get filled soon enough...


This will be no different than when 5 people launch a purchase of 1 item at a single click. First come, first served.

The same request (bulk purchase) was made a couple of years ago in Swords and Potions 2, in a way the predecessor to this game as the company who created it was founded by the same person who founded CloudCade.

They introduced a trade house system in which you can either buy 99 items of the same price at a time, or type in the quantity you wanted to buy. This worked a treat.

I think this should be a fairly easy improvement to implement.

Kind regards,

Leg

internetz
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Re: Resource trading nerfed?

Postby internetz » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:25 am

it would be nice if you could just click and hold to keep purchasing/filling reqs.. put like a 2 second delay on it at first to prevent ppl from accidentally doing it, but then after that, just continue buying/filling at 10/second until you let go of the button. wouldn't put any more stress on the server than me clicking like crazy, and would make selling off several hundred mats much better...

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Shiroe
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Re: Resource trading nerfed?

Postby Shiroe » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:34 am

alanx wrote:This is not practical because resources are bought by a LOT of people around the same time. Suppose 5 people launch a purchase of 100 items with a single click, you now need a serverside arbitrator logic that will differentiate and prioritize the player clicks. Now you need a policy on who get their clicks processed first and how many clicks at a time? since all 5 launched the click when the same the same item price, how to arbitrate? after processing and simulating say 10 clicks, another 5 players launch more requests of 100, over time the arbitrator will get overloaded.This would need to track new additions in offer/requests, handle new trades, cancellations, price changes. Its just too much work that would just result in more lag coz this needs to be done for every resource and then people will want similar features for other items if not 100x at a time then maybe 10x. I think the current system is just fine. If anyone wants 100 resources, put in an upgraded trade slot request of 100.....they do get filled soon enough...

Yep, current system (when not lagging) is for each tap on an offer it either gives the artifact/item and subtracts the gold/gems or gives a red popup about it not being available at that price anymore if all at that price got bought inbetween the refresh of that client-side TH item price and the buy request hitting the server. (similar for requests) So for the server, a client-side auto-clicker wouldn't matter much. (would be mostly client UI mess and problem signalling to the player that it only saves taps/clicks, not time) Server side non-slot bulk handling: indeed wouldn't expect that to happen unless they one day announce "hey, we've completely rewritten the tradehouse from scratch!"... ;)
as of 2016-09-11: Player level: 44, City: Eolythes, Blueprints: 517, Mastered: 419, Crafted: 78.61K
(except for tier 1 and some tier 2 artifacts mostly running my shop/gearing self sufficient)

alanx
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Re: Resource trading nerfed?

Postby alanx » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:05 am

I'm pretty sure these things have been discussed in the past and it was observed that such features that present themselves as "bot" mechanisms aren't expected to be implemented since they're counterproductive to the point of players actually playing the game. I wouldn't expect such things to actually see the light of day.

However I think the press and hold system can work. The sale/purchase can stop as soon as the price changes. This would at least reduce the number of taps....but then again people actually play tapping/clicking games so I would just think of it as a mini-game :D :D :D j/k

CHRI5
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Re: Resource trading nerfed?

Postby CHRI5 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:13 pm

Why not just have an option to sell excessive artifacts to a hero or outright without using the TH. A button could be placed in the inn or Shop where you can sell any amount of artifacts you want to the "Computer" rather than any individual and then those resources just disappear from the game and you get a set price from CC. This would alleviate the burden of having to throw away artifacts that don't sell on the TH or can't give away fast enough to city mates because of timers.


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