Chest blueprints ever worth it?

Discussion of lower level gameplay and strategy.
neeneko
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Chest blueprints ever worth it?

Postby neeneko » Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:58 pm

So I have been playing for a few weeks (shopkeeper level 29, highest hero level 24) so I am hoping 'beginner' is still the appropriate place to ask this: are chest blueprints ever useful?

They seem to lag way behind hereo levels. I have gotten a few from chest and am slowly accumulating them from fragments, but I have just barely scratched the 'leather' level ones and none of my heros are anywhere near having use for them.

So I am trying to figure out, have I just had poor luck, am doing something wrong, or if one generally only gets chest blueprints long after they are useful?

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Abqu
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Re: Chest blueprints ever worth it?

Postby Abqu » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:58 pm

Certain blueprints are always worth it. There are highlights in every chest for skill, and in golden+ there are bps that are good for making money.

There is usually a shift in gameplay around level 38ish, where using keys to open chests becomes a goal, as opposed to selling those keys for progression.

There are threads on the forum talking about which bps are good. But really it's up to you how you want to play.

Ronin
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Re: Chest blueprints ever worth it?

Postby Ronin » Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:09 am

neeneko wrote:So I have been playing for a few weeks (shopkeeper level 29, highest hero level 24) so I am hoping 'beginner' is still the appropriate place to ask this: are chest blueprints ever useful?

They seem to lag way behind hereo levels. I have gotten a few from chest and am slowly accumulating them from fragments, but I have just barely scratched the 'leather' level ones and none of my heros are anywhere near having use for them.

So I am trying to figure out, have I just had poor luck, am doing something wrong, or if one generally only gets chest blueprints long after they are useful?


Most chests blueprints will never lose their usefulness, because they have quite useful skills attached to them.
This is because many high tier heroes can still run the highests quests while clad in several low lvl gears and because some heroes have skills that protect such low lvl gear from breaking.

I've used every single wood chest recipe on my heroes and some of them are always on my lvl 40+ heroes.

neeneko
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Re: Chest blueprints ever worth it?

Postby neeneko » Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:13 am

Hrm.

So it sounds like they mostly start becoming useful in the mid late game after anti-breaking skills become common enough to be useful and thus out-of-level gear becomes viable?

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WingDingo
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Re: Chest blueprints ever worth it?

Postby WingDingo » Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:41 am

Chest blueprint items have more Power than non-chest items of the same level. Chest blueprint items have a higher base price than non-chest items of the same level. Some chest blueprints are components of other blueprints (but a chest blueprint will never be a component for a Common Blueprint).

It really depends on how you play Shop Heroes. If you use the Trade House a lot to fill requests for Gold or Gems, you will have more options by having the chest blueprints unlocked.

I you don't mind items breaking, Energetic Items can make it so that you have a 0 rest time on Questing and raiding with Wooden and Leather Chest items only. You can turn your parties into parties of 6 using any hero you want by giving them the Leader skill. I don't know how useful this is at lower levels, but it is an option.

neeneko
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Re: Chest blueprints ever worth it?

Postby neeneko » Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:46 am

WingDingo wrote:Chest blueprint items have more Power than non-chest items of the same level. Chest blueprint items have a higher base price than non-chest items of the same level. Some chest blueprints are components of other blueprints (but a chest blueprint will never be a component for a Common Blueprint).


Interesting. I did not realize chest blueprint items were ever components for later items.

The level and price thing is what is currently, hrm, maybe not 'annoying' me, but feeling unbalanced. Most of my heros are around level 25, but the next blueprint to unlock in the inn is only level 10, so even if it is better than the common ones its level and price are so far below my current level they are rendered kinda moot.

It really depends on how you play Shop Heroes. If you use the Trade House a lot to fill requests for Gold or Gems, you will have more options by having the chest blueprints unlocked.


Is that really viable? When I peek in the tradehouse under requests, I mostly see items for REALLY cheap, high level items, and chests/keys. There does not seem to be much demand for chest blueprint items. Since one has to master them before getting the skill bonus that is kinda what I would expect though.

Now, if one got the bonus skill by the item being the right quality, that I could see creating a vibrant market for the items.

I you don't mind items breaking, Energetic Items can make it so that you have a 0 rest time on Questing and raiding with Wooden and Leather Chest items only. You can turn your parties into parties of 6 using any hero you want by giving them the Leader skill. I don't know how useful this is at lower levels, but it is an option.


At the really low levels I was doing this since there were a few chest blueprints at the very beginning that were really useful there. It kinda feels like the chest blueprints start well balanced with general but get out of sync after about level 10. I will be curious to play with them more once they are cheap to produce and lose, though by then I might have openned up higher ones, which loops back to a possible balance issue.

Hrm.

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WingDingo
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Re: Chest blueprints ever worth it?

Postby WingDingo » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:22 am

Again, it's a matter of opinion. These are Chest Blueprint items that are requested at maximum price up to Item Level 25. When you compare these to the Gold Standard that is Nordic Lute, it doesn't seem that significant. If you are making them anyway, and you don't want to use it, you may as well sell it. But why would you make it if you don't plan to use it, and aren't making it to sell it? I don't know. I'm just providing information. Do with it as you want.

Image

neeneko
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Re: Chest blueprints ever worth it?

Postby neeneko » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:23 am

WingDingo wrote:Again, it's a matter of opinion. These are Chest Blueprint items that are requested at maximum price up to Item Level 25. When you compare these to the Gold Standard that is Nordic Lute, it doesn't seem that significant. If you are making them anyway, and you don't want to use it, you may as well sell it. But why would you make it if you don't plan to use it, and aren't making it to sell it? I don't know. I'm just providing information. Do with it as you want.


I do appreciate the information, and I am not attempting to argue with you ^_~ just trying to get a better understanding.

Hrm. I wonder if there is sharding, or just plain luck, involved with the trade house view. When I look at requests, the only flawless (of any type) I see is for the Nocturn Ax, and the only blueprint items I can spot are the Nocturn Ax and Frozen Helm.

So if the image you included is representative of the trade house you see, I would guess my confusion is stemming from some technical limitation that is giving me a different view to compare against.

And now that I have played with the UI a bit, I am seeing the issue. The button that is normally "*" for other menus is I guess some type of 'newest' list, and thus has a very limited subset of requests. So now the information is making a lot more sense.

neeneko
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Re: Chest blueprints ever worth it?

Postby neeneko » Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:02 pm

Cycling back to this.

I poked through the forum and couldn't really find such a discussion, but I wonder, has there been much comparison between the progression of players and blueprints before and after the quest 'special loot' changes from a few months back?

It sounds like blueprint fragments used to be easier to get ahold of and the rate of advancement between acquiring blueprint(fragment)s was more aligned with player progression. This would explain why a lot of the advice threads I see in the forum seem kinda baffling.

For instance, I am still working towards Lion Boots, but am fielding Edward with a full team (ok, I know the full team is a bug, but I will probably get him to level 20 well before finally getting the Lion Boot blueprint). I would not even be surprised if my Gauvin hit 30 before this point. The 'level appropriate' blueprints would be gold chest ones, but I am still at the wood/leather stage, even with burning most of my gems on keys.

This is not to say there should only be one way to get larger teams or that this is the single goal, or that chest blueprints should be some auto-right (since they tend to be pretty optional), but it really feels like these progression mechanics are really out of sync when it comes to non-endgame players.

Ronin
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Re: Chest blueprints ever worth it?

Postby Ronin » Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:30 pm

neeneko wrote:Cycling back to this.

I poked through the forum and couldn't really find such a discussion, but I wonder, has there been much comparison between the progression of players and blueprints before and after the quest 'special loot' changes from a few months back?

It sounds like blueprint fragments used to be easier to get ahold of and the rate of advancement between acquiring blueprint(fragment)s was more aligned with player progression.


I don't know if one can argue with a straight face that blueprint fragments were easier to acquire prior to the special loot changes. Based on my limited testing pre and post of low-lvl quest runs, I appear to acquire bp fragments more frequently than I did before (direct from special loot roll and as possible draw from a special loot bag). Very briefly a few players flash-farmed sewers for fragments - with variable success - which Cloudcade quickly patched. This was definitely not a standard practice used by the player base to acquire blueprints faster.

Blueprints were likely acquired faster by end-game players prior to the quest loot change, but purely because artifacts were worth significantly more and you could flip all that gold to gems for opening chests. For players who weren't yet running jungle/chaos with 100% energetic, I'd guess that blueprints are acquired at around the same rate or possibly faster presently.


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